Read Paul's January "Elder Journal" Column on "Holistic Gerontology."
RichOBoyle
I would like to introduce Paul Takayanagi ... our newest ECO columnist and a guest speaker
tonight on the topic of "holistic gerontology."
RichOBoyle
Paul is an aging specialist from San Francisco where he works in adult day services for AD
patients and academia
paultaka
Hi Everyone! Thanks for joining us. Holistic Aging is something I've been interested in
for quite some time and glad that you are too!
RichOBoyle
Let me pass the microphone over to Paul
paultaka
That means that I have one foot in academia (I teach at San Francisco State) and one foot
in senior social services, as an Education Director for an Alzheimer's Day Center.
paultaka
We offer quite a number of Complementary and Alternative Medicine treatments at the center
including acupressure, aromatherapy and more. I'm interested in knowing what draws you to
tonight's topic and also answer any questions regarding "Holistic Aging."
Doug
would you please explain holistic aging
paultaka
In a nutshell holistic aging is looking at the aging process from the perspective of the
mind, body and spirit. Aging is seen as negative by so many people, professionals and lay
that a new perspective that sees aging as more positive is growing.
RichOBoyle
What is interesting to me is that I have seen sporadic research into the use of everything
from "light therapy" and aromatherapy for AD as wwell as for caregivers (esp in
managign stress). Where does the overall research stand?
paultaka
It's growing. More researchers are looking at alternative methods. I recently read about a
study using Reiki with persons with dementia that was quite interesting. I'm also open to
just talking generally tonight as well!
paultaka
I'm wondering if any of you have used any Complementary or Alternative methods for stress
as caregivers or if you would be interested?
RichOBoyle
can you tell us about some uses for aromatherapy? lets say for caregiver stress and also
for a personw ith dementia
Doug
it may be too late for me, but always like to learn
RichOBoyle
what do you hve to say about that Paul? It's never too late
paultaka
We have used aromatherapy with both caregivers and persons with dementia. Aromatherapy is
challenging for persons with dementia as it's one of the first senses to go but it can be
useful. It's never too late to start using Complementary medicine!
paultaka
I give a lot of talks about stress reduction primarily using guided imagery, meditation,
relaxation exercises, and more. Caregivers seem to be very open, even the ones who have
never used them before.
RichOBoyle
can you give me an example of using aromatheraphy for a caregiver?
paultaka (Jan 21, 2003 9:15:57 PM)
Okay, let's say a caregiver comes home from a very stressful day caring for an elder
parent. Lavendar, chamomile and other scents can be used to induce a more calming and
peaceful state. For caregivers, this can be very effective.
paultaka
I gave a talk in SF awhile ago that I mention in my column. Many of the 30 or so
caregivers had tried Complementary methods including acupuncture, acupressure and
aromatherapy and primarily for stress. While taking a valium pill can be prescribed, many
people would rather try alternative methods.
RichOBoyle
i'll go out on a limb here
paultaka
The American Society on Aging has been a leader in promoting a holistic aging perspective.
They had more than a dozen sessions at the 2002 annual meeting totally devoted to
complementary medicine.
RichOBoyle
for a long long time i have viewed much of "alternative medicine" as some forms
of quackery.
paultaka
Great Rich! Go out there and ask away!
RichOBoyle
seems like so much was based on anecdotal evidence or claims of amazing recovery etc
paultaka
Yes, there is but there is a lot of "quackery" in traditional medicine. Also, I
guess, I have to say that there are regional differences.
RichOBoyle
and the advertising of some things just seems screwy to me
RichOBoyle
yes I will agree with you on quackery and ignorance in traditional medciince
RichOBoyle
but I ahve come to be more open to CAM therapies
paultaka
But the same is often true for conventional medicine. But it's not an either/or situation,
the best is when conventional medicine is combined with alternative medicine.
RichOBoyle
I am seeing better research and more relaistic claims
RichOBoyle
yes I also like the concept of "complimentary" medicine
paultaka
Yes, and their application to the aging process is growing with good research and good
studies.
paultaka
The primary health issue that Complementary and Alternative medicine adresses are chronic
issues like pain management, stress reduction etc.
RichOBoyle
Paul do you see gerontologists or the elderly more open to CAM therapy?
paultaka
Yes. We're seeing more sessions at conferences like the ASA and NCOA and more older adults
are accessing CAM. 34 million people accessed CAM last year and many are older people.
paultaka
One of the other major CAM treatments is therapeutic massage. When I was a senior center
director, we had a massage therapist come to the center once a month and her schedule was
filled days in advance.
RichOBoyle
I had a conversation with a massage therapist recently and she was very interested in
using massage for the elderly
paultaka
Yes, it's becoming a speciality within the field.
paultaka
It sounds incredible but many older people are never touched (because many are widowed).
One study showed that many older women go to the doctor just to have physical human
contact from doctors and nurses giving exams.
RichOBoyle
that's a very powerful statement
paultaka
That's why therapeutic massage is so important, because human contact is life.
RichOBoyle
how can a caregiver give a massage to their care recipient?
paultaka
One can start by massaging the hands.
RichOBoyle
it sound s like a dumb questions... but doesn't a massage require a table and steamy
towels and a tall swedish woman?
paultaka
We often give hand massages at our center for persons with dementia.
Doug
from what i have seen, hospice is doing much of the same thing
paultaka
No, there are many other ways to give a massage these days including a chair massage where
people don't remove clothing. You might have seen them at health fairs.
paultaka
One of the greatest developments in the past twenty years is the openess to massage as a
therapeutic intervention rather than a sexual one which it had for decades.
RichOBoyle
I think that's improtant
paultaka
Massage therapists are of every kind and many specialities.
huegs
How do you handle massage with the elderly who are all skin and bones
paultaka
Very carefully literally.
paultaka
When we massage our clients hands we use lotion and are very gentle.
Doug
with plenty of lotion
paultaka
We don't really give neck or shoulder massages except to clients we know can manage that
kind of contact.
RichOBoyle
so its not this kind of deep tissue massage... sometimes it is just touching someone
paultaka
Foot reflexology is also a good kind of massage although podiatry issues abound with the
elderly.
paultaka
Yes, basic touch is very important.
huegs
The homeaide uses sarina lotion on my husband and just gives him a good back rub
paultaka
That's great huegs and does your husband feel great after?
RichOBoyle
what kind of response to massage can one expect from their LO?
paultaka
Was there a health issue you were going through Doug?
huegs
Yes. He itches so as he is jaundice most of the time now
Doug
wife was accepted into hospice yesterday, she has been in a nursing home almost 5 yrs
paultaka
Rich, by LO do you mean loved one?
Doug
they give her a month
RichOBoyle
LO = loved one
paultaka
Our thoughts are with you Doug and your wife!
huegs
I am glad hospice is in the picture now Doug
pattymac
they will take good care ofher
Doug
finally
RichOBoyle
EA had so many good things to say about hospice and Milly
paultaka
Hospice is a kind of alternative choice as well.
RichOBoyle
has it been hard to get them involved?
huegs
I have hospice now also for husband. It is 9 months now
paultaka
Is it in home hospice huegs?
Doug
as of the end of Dec, she had not lost enough weight to qualify
huegs
Yes
paultaka
I've never heard of a weight qualification!
Doug
but she has lost more than 7 pounds since then
huegs
But we did not qualify for AD . It was the terminal cancer.
Doug
and is skin and bones now
Doug
it was from our local hospice org
huegs
I go to PT three times a week for a frozen shoulder. Some ask why I don't try massage.
babs
is hospice seperate from NH or a par tof or in hospital Doug?
pattymac
they will help you throu it all toodoug
Doug
i think they didnt want to become invoved with the disease
paultaka
Huegs, maybe you could try massage therapy, water therapy might also be good?
huegs
They will even go into NH and try to feed
Doug
the hospice org was started by the local medical center, which in turn owns the nursing
home
paultaka
Your wife will have continuity of care then Doug.
Doug
yes, additional care
huegs
Yes I was thinking of water therapy. I am lucky as insurance pays for 60 visits to PT.
They are trying to break the adhesions.
pattymac
hi paul, what about suppiments for dementia?
paultaka
by supplements do you mean medicine to treat or cure it?
pattymac
treat the symtoms
charlotte
and cure it if possible
paultaka
There aren't any strong medicine to treat the symptoms except drugs like Haldol which
control some behaviors and unfortunately there is no cure...yet!
charlotte
what do you think of memantine? for alzheimer's?
paultaka
I have clients who use it but have not shared too much about the results. Aricept has had
very good press from many people.
charlotte
Wondering if aricept is better is better than exelon...
paultaka
Aricept seems to slow down the progression of dementia for about 50 percent of people who
use it.
pattymac
ant alternatives like herbs, or maybe Sam-E
huegs
Comparing treatments with a lot of the chatters, I find that every drug acts different on
each AD patient. No reason.
paultaka
There have been studies on how herbal medicine or natural supplements might improve memory
generally. Vitamin E has been recommended and of course gingko biloba but the results are
not conclusive.
huegs
When aricept stopped working, they put husband on exelon. We were going to John Hopkins
paultaka
Yes, and every complementary and alternative medical treatment will have different results
with different people.
Doug
Vit E was helpful, in my opinion, but even that has been discontinured
RichOBoyle
what should a cg do if they want to explore some of these CAM therapies? how to consult
with doctor?
huegs
I think they just do not know enough about AD yet
paultaka
A person should of course consult a doctor about every thing they are trying.
paultaka
Some physicians are going to be more open than others. If a person is interested there are
some good references at the end of my column to explore some options.
charlotte
We feel like trying everything..it seems like if you don't do something quickly, you can't
slow it at all
charlotte
alzh, I mean.
paultaka
It's good to try things as long as they're aren't side effects or interactions with other
treatments/drugs that are compromising.
RichOBoyle
at some point you start to look at the disease and inevitable, but you can ease some of
the symptoms for both patient and CG
paultaka
Yes. CAM is mainly used for stress reduction, pain management and not for cures or strong
treatments of symptoms. But many studies show that CAM save people money and drug side
effects.
charlotte
CAM?
paultaka
Complementary and Alternative Medicine (CAM)
RichOBoyle
how is CAM used for pain management?
paultaka
By inducing relaxation primarily of both body and mind. Studies have shown that guided
imagery that induces relaxation can be much more effective than many drugs like valium
etc.
paultaka
When a person is in pain, they often tense up which causes a cycle of more pain, more
tenseness, etc. CAM can reduce the tension which can reduce the pain and start a more
calming cycle.
huegs
maybe that is what the caregivers need
paultaka
Yes. many of the caregivers I work with cite stress as their primary health issue and are
looking for nonpharmaceuticual ways to deal with it.
paultaka
Many health insurance companies and HMO's are also seeing the benefits of CAM and offering
more options for these choices.
huegs
Yes and it has to be something we can do at home
huegs
Support groups for AD are not the answer
RichOBoyle
can you give an example of some things that a CG can do to reduce stress... maybe a little
guided imagery?
paultaka
Sure. Take a deep breath and exhale slowly.
paultaka
Take another deep breath and this time sigh out loud as you exhale.
Doug
i handle stress by trying to keep the mind busy with as many activities as possible
paultaka
That can sometimes work well but it's also good to try this!
paultaka
take a moment and relax your shoulders, most people have tension in this part of their
body, let your shoulders go down about an inch or two.
paultaka
Now take a moment and relax your jaw. it's the second most common area where stress
resides in most people.
paultaka
Now, envision yourself in your most favorite natural environment. could be a beach, the
woods or a mountaintop.
huegs
Oh my. I was really clenching my teeth
paultaka
Yes, now move your jaw around release the tension there!
paultaka
Shake your shoulders a little more and move your feet around.
paultaka
Now, take a moment and really see the natural environment you're in. Rich, do you have an
image in mind and could you share what it is?
CAROL
sounds like bubbles dreaming of being on a deserted island
RichOBoyle
The beach near my house
paultaka
Great. Really see yourself at this beach, it's a Sunday afternoon and you've finished all
of your work and can really BE there!
Doug
hey Rich, can you arrange to have Paul come in here on a regular basis
paultaka
Thanks Doug, I'll be here at least once a month!
huegs
Yes it is too bad a lot of the regulars are not on tonigiht
RichOBoyle
actually Paul will be here each month and writes a column each month
Doug
that will be great
paultaka So, the taking a deep breath, relaxing your body and
envisioning yourself in a peaceful environment a couple of times of day is very useful!
RichOBoyle
I like the idea of bringing more "holistic" info and ideas into our community
paultaka
thanks I hope it's useful.
huegs
I will relax my jaw for sure
paultaka
Good, it's really important to release tension there as much as possible.
charlotte
I got a relaxation cd...connected with colors..really helps...& can play it on a
walkman type cd player & not impinge on others
paultaka
In my classes I give instructions for a five minute facial..it's hard to do this online
but basically you move around your face muscles by making funny faces and massaging around
the eyes.
paultaka
That's great Charlotte...another great way to relax.
paultaka (Jan 21, 2003 10:01:18 PM)
There are many relaxation tapes in bookstores that are useful.
huegs
The soundtrack to the old movie "rudy" relaxes my husband so
paultaka
Music is another great way to relax and to reminisce. Music skills are one of the last
skills to go with a person with dementia.
paultaka
A person won't remember their spouse's name but will remember the words to old songs.
huegs
My husband is behind me here constantly asking to go home
paultaka
Which home is he asking for? One from childhood?
huegs
Sometimes I think that but other times I think he believes he is in hospital and we are
just visiting
huegs
I forget. Who do you care for sks
sks
must be the moon - Mary thought this morning we cut the house in half and now we're
staying in this one instead of staying two places
sks
Mother in law Mary
paultaka
Wow that's different!
paultaka
the house in half I mean!
sks
her hallucinations are very different
paultaka
Does she have lewy body dementia?
huegs
They are. She can express them to you then
sks
i'ts what made me decide to look beyond the AD diagnosis
huegs
We do charades. Husband cannot get words out
sks
I now believe based on info I've found she has LBD
paultaka
I had a client who once thought the ficus tree on the porch was his brother in law. But he
got along with it!
huegs
Ha. that is funny
sks
her hallucinations are so detailed and vivid but she can seem perfectly normal - still
reads some - writes with difficulty
sks
walks does some household things
paultaka
As long as he was amenable to his hallucinations, we "let" him have them. True
for everyone?
Charlotte
makes sense
paultaka
What kinds of things can she still do?
sks
well - she gets upset that there are people here all the time and they won't answer her
when she talks to them
sks
Read large print - can help with food preparation some - washes dishes -
paultaka
Ahh, I've run into that a number of times! It's interesting. I think it means they had
very social lives before the dementia.
paultaka
Helping as much as possible is good. This generation likes to help!
sks
she may have before the alcoholic now x- husband but she didn't socialize because he
embarassed her
huegs
Does she have good days and bad days
Charlotte
sks, how long has your wife's condition been developing
sks
she mostly dresses herself and loves reading to and playing with my grandchildren
sks
this is my mother in law
paultaka
and you are the primary caregiver?
sks
she lives with us since Oct. 2001 -
sks
yes
paultaka
are you a fulltime caregiver or do you work outside the home too?
sks
I'm the stability for her - my husb - her only remaining son has difficulty dealing with
it
sks
I am both - my office is in home
paultaka
it's hard for the actual son or daughter to accept often
sks
my husband is on disability
Charlotte
whew
paultaka
you have three jobs!
paultaka
How do you handle the stress?
sks
he has so many problems and pain - with rheu. and osteo Arthritis and a few other things
as well
sks
I have Hives LOL
sks
and I've always been able to deal with stress
paultaka
just naturally...how do you take care of yourself?
sks
I go see grands in Chic. about every 2 months
paultaka
what is grands in chic?
sks
go get a grands fix here see the 3 that live near - my grandsons twins 2 1/2
Charlotte
grandchildren in Chicago,,,right?
huegs
We were told this would be 4 to 6 months after the cancer dx. It is now over two years.
Taking it toll on everyone now
paultaka
one never knows about diagnosis! The life force is very strong!
Charlotte
I still have moments when I think my husband, Bill, has been misdiagnosed...& this is
about his two and a half year ago mild stroke instead of alz. denial? maybe, he's
convinced it's alz...that's the funny part
paultaka
people can be a plateau for a long time!
Bubblehead
Charlotte that is absolutely normal
Bubblehead
I even at one time period while caring for Milly felt that what she had was not Alz.
paultaka
a friend of mine went today to be re-diagnosed but he thinks it will still be an
Alzheimer's diagnosis.
sks
we were told in summer of 2000 that my MIL has AD - but she's had the hallucinations from
beginning and now almost all day every day
Bubblehead
They are now diagnosing alz. at an early stage then they use to
huegs
We never had hallucinations until the last couple of months with the AD.
Bubblehead
so no wonder people have a hard time believing it
paultaka
yes, earlier diagnosis is the trend and it is changing our field...hi tiger
paultaka
it used to be that people got diagnosed when they were in the moderate stages primarily
and the symptoms were obvious, now that's changing.
paultaka
is this one of those "quiet moments"?
sks
well as I look at stages on the sites and we fit the LBD symptoms
sks
the Neurologist didn't call me back today
paultaka
Yes, LBD has many more hallucinations associated with it than AD.
Bubblehead
It is getting their breath before the storm type deal
huegs
I was doing that too when first got dx. I was sure it was Picks. As he got worse dr. said
all dementias end up as AD
Bubblehead
Well they end up like Alz.
Bubblehead
but pick is pick at any stage
paultaka
I'm not sure that's exactly true what the doctor said...I think the future will show that
there are different kinds of Alzheimer's.
Bubblehead
and alz. is alz at any stage
sks
I could write many books on the hallucinations -
paultaka
you should we need more info!
Bubblehead
but you can also have a mixed dementia package
sks
if might save my sanity
paultaka
definitely another major trend in the field
huegs
I think when the dementia works its way around to all the lobes, it is called AD. Ours
started out in frontal lobe
sks
the LBD site is good - have you looked at their info?
Bubblehead
Milly's so called halucinations almost all had some reason or cause behind them
sks
Mary's did in the earlier times
paultaka
can you give the lbd web address?
sks
but now - her 290 lb son being swung in circles on a ribbon and bouncing him off the
ground?
paultaka
thats quite an image
sks
this site won't let you post a paste
Bubblehead
Milly claimed she saw her son's head floating out of her closet
sks
true - she was hysterical that they hurt him
paultaka
that's okay I'll search google.com or other search engine
sks
we had two men in her suitcase with one arm hanging out Sat at 7AM
paultaka
they must have been very small men
sks
http://www.lewybodydisease.org
paultaka
thanks!
sks
rofl - and the woman can lose her cigarettes faster than I can find them
sks
there was a post that nicotine patches may help
Bubblehead
Good don't find them
paultaka
they can and there are actually holistic ways to quit too
paultaka
I think that quitting smoking is the most important holistic health goal!
Bubblehead
If she is loosing her cigs try not finding them too quickly
sks
no it said research project that the patches help dementia
paultaka
don't know about that!
Bubblehead
Smoking and AD or related diseases is a very dangerous combinations
sks
she spends far more time finding them than smoking
paultaka
gives her something to do!
sks
she smokes maybe 4 a day - it's something to fiddle with
paultaka
Yet, if she could quit there are health advantages for a person of any age!
sks
and she won't smoke in house - but she wanted to smoke some when going thru her divorce
and I figured she needed to have something she felt she could control
sks
we don't smoke so she wont inside
Bubblehead
try giving her a celery stick or carrot stick when she starts looking for them
huegs
I was going to say one of those false cigarettes
paultaka
A study showed that when people crave cigs, they are actually craving more air, so taking
deep breaths often curb a nicotine craving.
Bubblehead
at 4 a day it is not as much a physiccal addiction any more
Bubblehead
I quit about a year ago and yes taking deep breaths when a craving hits does help
sks
you are going to think this is dumb but the nicotine from those 4 cigarettes - make her
more alert and physically able - she had a heart attack years ago and quit so it's
something new for her
paultaka
Congrats Bubblehead!
huegs
Too bad we can't get our AD LO to do Paul's relaxing exercises
Bubblehead
No it is not dumb
sks
I talked to the dr about it and he said it act s as stimulant
Bubblehead
the nicotine can make her more mentally alert and cigs are the only dual action drug known
paultaka
cigs are definitely stimulants but there are more healthy ways to accomplish the same
things.
sks
so - I just monitor - and the dog is on her tail all the time - and he gets upset when she
needs help - has alerted us when she fell
Bubblehead
it is both a stimulant and a downer
paultaka
in the long run, it's probably again "benign" and if she enjoys it, 4 a day is
moderate.
Bubblehead
just be sure she does not have free access to cigs and lighter
sks
that's my thought - it's like the child - some things aren't worth hassle
sks
she doesn't - she can't find them lol
huegs
They all have some compulsive behaviors for sure
Bubblehead
When I was working in the NH many moons ago one fellow set fire to himself when his wife
left him with cigs and lighter alone
paultaka
I know a person with dementia who is "addicted" to oreo cookies, can't stop
eating them but they don't gain weight and it makes them happy so??
Bubblehead
that is why I get concern about smoking AD LOs
sks
I help her find them and then get her coat then tell her to let dog go out with her and
THEN watch out the window till she gets it lit
paultaka
yes, fire and AD don't mix!
Bubblehead
Hey that is no0t an addicition it is a major food group and good medicine
paultaka
have you tried the new Mocha/Creme ones?
Bubblehead
No I have not seen those yet
sks
that's why we've updated smoke alarms - wish I could get her to eat anything instead of
just meals - and that's an effort
Bubblehead
but I will track them down tomorrow
sks
I wish they'd make peanut butter ones
paultaka
I think we're getting away from holistic health interventions!
Bubblehead
they do
sks
no -
paultaka
But we all have our vices!!
RichOBoyle
what are some holistic approaches to quitting smoking?
sks
I mean no they are holistic
Bubblehead
but I though chocolate and peanut butter was holistic
paultaka
Well, hypnosis is one holistic way to stop smoking and acupuncture can help too.
paultaka
I know many people who have quit in these ways without the patch or drugs.
sks
oreos - yep - they have dairy and grains -
paultaka
chocolate actually does have some therapeutic value!
RichOBoyle
tell us about that!
sks
I believe in the acupuncture -
huegs
So what do you do with an AD patient to quiet them down when they are so agitated.
Reasoning does not help. Do not like to give haldaol
Bubblehead
Is there not something that can tickle the pleasure centers of the brain that cigs do to
help one ease an AD LO off cigs or allow them to forget they smoke without them looking to
tickle those areas of the brain
sks
the Dr. put Mary on 5mg of Paxil
Bubblehead
I used drugs and patches to quit on the last leg of quitting
sks
very minor dose and it seems to have helped
paultaka
There's always a reason behind the agitation...look for that and sometimes the solution to
ending the agitation is evident.
Bubblehead
but in reality it took me a little over two years to work to get to the last leg of
quitting
paultaka
For example, often, the person has to go to the bathroom and once she or he is taken,
calms down considerably.
sks
what about the old Nicotine gum -or is it the Nicotine you want to avoid
paultaka
if it might work try it!
sks
but with Mary she's agitated because as she says she has no control any more -
huegs
I used to hear that too
sks
or when she has the hallucinations - they upset her
paultaka
can you give Mary a sense of control of something?
Bubblehead
OK that sounds like fear sks
huegs
Now I just do not understand what it is that is bothering him and he even starts to cry
paultaka
sometimes just comforting will help without trying to resolve anything
sks
tonight she rode with me to bureau to transfer tags to current vehicle - when I came back
out to truck she said "I wondered who was going to take me home?
paultaka
she must have been reassured when it was you!
sks
I talk her down - tell her it's ok we'll just deal with the problems --
sks
actually she didn't remember I got her there
paultaka
reassurance in any form is good
sks
she started talking about he had his hair cut and off on a tangent.
paultaka
that's where touch can be helpful again, just taking a person's hand and saying how much
they mean to you can go along way.
sks
I was gone maybe 5 min.
paultaka
to a person with AD that's a lifetime sometimes!
huegs
My husband even started to speak German at one time of agitation. He spoke that till he
was five
paultaka
it's very common for a person to "revert" to a childhood language
Bubblehead
Yes AD LO become very frightened about being left alon e in strange places
sks
I give a lot of hugs - more that I did - and I've always been demonstrative with her. the
control thing - she lost a son, divorced a husb (bad as he was) and gave up her home to
live with us. Kind of hard to give her much feeling of control
paultaka
yes, and hugs can be the best therapy and totally holistic!
huegs
Touching is the key. They want to know we are here
Bubblehead
Most all AD LOs that I have observed sitting in cars in parking lots display fearful
behaviors while waiting for the CG to return
huegs
I sit him on the sofa and then I sit at the other end and put my feet on his lap. He is so
happy then.
paultaka
out of sight, out of mind, literally!
Bubblehead
Actually it would be more fair to say eledrly people with seemingly aparent dificulties
paultaka
That's great huegs! very nice!
sks
she does - but is better as time goes on the X had her convinced the entire world was evil
- he had a permit and carried a gun UGH
huegs
We both nod off and fall asleep
Bubblehead
and a great way to get your feet up while caring for LO
huegs
Yep for sure bubbles
paultaka
we've covered a lot of ground tonight, sorry my hand hit the return key twice
paultaka
It's a kind of stuttering
RichOBoyle
these chats tend to be very wide ranging
sks
I do - Sun. fell asleep in chat room and it started to slide off my lap LOL
Bubblehead
but when I was caring for Milly for much the time we had only one bathroom
Bubblehead
and usually if Milly was not on the comode then hubby or kids were uysing it
paultaka
that's a challenge and most aren't large enough to assist a person!
Bubblehead
and then you get to chuckling here and you can get in quite a spot
paultaka
a sense of humor is another holistic health method for sure!
Bubblehead
humor is something many bring here
sks
I try to tell her things to make her chuckle - most of the time she get's it
paultaka
One of the members of the early stage support group I facilitate tells great jokes, I'll
remember to have some of them ready for next time.
paultaka
I'll be back again next month! Thank you so much Rich!
Bubblehead
It has been great meeting you paul
huegs
Enjoyed the chat
RichOBoyle
this has been very informative for us. I will post the transcript in the next few days
paultaka
great to meet you too and hope we chat soon
huegs
and got some pointers on relaxation
paultaka
I'll give more next time
RichOBoyle
you did an ecellent job for your first time, paul... i'm very impressed
paultaka
thanks!
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