Holistic Gerontology January 21, 2003


Read Paul's January "Elder Journal" Column on "Holistic Gerontology."

RichOBoyle
I would like to introduce Paul Takayanagi ... our newest ECO columnist and a guest speaker tonight on the topic of "holistic gerontology."

RichOBoyle
Paul is an aging specialist from San Francisco where he works in adult day services for AD patients and academia

paultaka
Hi Everyone! Thanks for joining us. Holistic Aging is something I've been interested in for quite some time and glad that you are too!

RichOBoyle
Let me pass the microphone over to Paul

paultaka
That means that I have one foot in academia (I teach at San Francisco State) and one foot in senior social services, as an Education Director for an Alzheimer's Day Center.

paultaka
We offer quite a number of Complementary and Alternative Medicine treatments at the center including acupressure, aromatherapy and more. I'm interested in knowing what draws you to tonight's topic and also answer any questions regarding "Holistic Aging."

Doug
would you please explain holistic aging

paultaka
In a nutshell holistic aging is looking at the aging process from the perspective of the mind, body and spirit. Aging is seen as negative by so many people, professionals and lay that a new perspective that sees aging as more positive is growing.

RichOBoyle
What is interesting to me is that I have seen sporadic research into the use of everything from "light therapy" and aromatherapy for AD as wwell as for caregivers (esp in managign stress). Where does the overall research stand?

paultaka
It's growing. More researchers are looking at alternative methods. I recently read about a study using Reiki with persons with dementia that was quite interesting. I'm also open to just talking generally tonight as well!

paultaka
I'm wondering if any of you have used any Complementary or Alternative methods for stress as caregivers or if you would be interested?

RichOBoyle
can you tell us about some uses for aromatherapy? lets say for caregiver stress and also for a personw ith dementia

Doug
it may be too late for me, but always like to learn

RichOBoyle
what do you hve to say about that Paul? It's never too late

paultaka
We have used aromatherapy with both caregivers and persons with dementia. Aromatherapy is challenging for persons with dementia as it's one of the first senses to go but it can be useful. It's never too late to start using Complementary medicine!

paultaka
I give a lot of talks about stress reduction primarily using guided imagery, meditation, relaxation exercises, and more. Caregivers seem to be very open, even the ones who have never used them before.

RichOBoyle
can you give me an example of using aromatheraphy for a caregiver?

paultaka (Jan 21, 2003 9:15:57 PM)
Okay, let's say a caregiver comes home from a very stressful day caring for an elder parent. Lavendar, chamomile and other scents can be used to induce a more calming and peaceful state. For caregivers, this can be very effective.

paultaka
I gave a talk in SF awhile ago that I mention in my column. Many of the 30 or so caregivers had tried Complementary methods including acupuncture, acupressure and aromatherapy and primarily for stress. While taking a valium pill can be prescribed, many people would rather try alternative methods.

RichOBoyle
i'll go out on a limb here

paultaka
The American Society on Aging has been a leader in promoting a holistic aging perspective. They had more than a dozen sessions at the 2002 annual meeting totally devoted to complementary medicine.

RichOBoyle
for a long long time i have viewed much of "alternative medicine" as some forms of quackery.

paultaka
Great Rich! Go out there and ask away!

RichOBoyle
seems like so much was based on anecdotal evidence or claims of amazing recovery etc

paultaka
Yes, there is but there is a lot of "quackery" in traditional medicine. Also, I guess, I have to say that there are regional differences.

RichOBoyle
and the advertising of some things just seems screwy to me

RichOBoyle
yes I will agree with you on quackery and ignorance in traditional medciince

RichOBoyle
but I ahve come to be more open to CAM therapies

paultaka
But the same is often true for conventional medicine. But it's not an either/or situation, the best is when conventional medicine is combined with alternative medicine.

RichOBoyle
I am seeing better research and more relaistic claims

RichOBoyle
yes I also like the concept of "complimentary" medicine

paultaka
Yes, and their application to the aging process is growing with good research and good studies.

paultaka
The primary health issue that Complementary and Alternative medicine adresses are chronic issues like pain management, stress reduction etc.

RichOBoyle
Paul do you see gerontologists or the elderly more open to CAM therapy?

paultaka
Yes. We're seeing more sessions at conferences like the ASA and NCOA and more older adults are accessing CAM. 34 million people accessed CAM last year and many are older people.

paultaka
One of the other major CAM treatments is therapeutic massage. When I was a senior center director, we had a massage therapist come to the center once a month and her schedule was filled days in advance.

RichOBoyle
I had a conversation with a massage therapist recently and she was very interested in using massage for the elderly

paultaka
Yes, it's becoming a speciality within the field.

paultaka
It sounds incredible but many older people are never touched (because many are widowed). One study showed that many older women go to the doctor just to have physical human contact from doctors and nurses giving exams.

RichOBoyle
that's a very powerful statement

paultaka
That's why therapeutic massage is so important, because human contact is life.

RichOBoyle
how can a caregiver give a massage to their care recipient?

paultaka
One can start by massaging the hands.

RichOBoyle
it sound s like a dumb questions... but doesn't a massage require a table and steamy towels and a tall swedish woman?

paultaka
We often give hand massages at our center for persons with dementia.

Doug
from what i have seen, hospice is doing much of the same thing

paultaka
No, there are many other ways to give a massage these days including a chair massage where people don't remove clothing. You might have seen them at health fairs.

paultaka
One of the greatest developments in the past twenty years is the openess to massage as a therapeutic intervention rather than a sexual one which it had for decades.

RichOBoyle
I think that's improtant

paultaka
Massage therapists are of every kind and many specialities.

huegs
How do you handle massage with the elderly who are all skin and bones

paultaka
Very carefully literally.

paultaka
When we massage our clients hands we use lotion and are very gentle.

Doug
with plenty of lotion

paultaka
We don't really give neck or shoulder massages except to clients we know can manage that kind of contact.

RichOBoyle
so its not this kind of deep tissue massage... sometimes it is just touching someone

paultaka
Foot reflexology is also a good kind of massage although podiatry issues abound with the elderly.

paultaka
Yes, basic touch is very important.

huegs
The homeaide uses sarina lotion on my husband and just gives him a good back rub

paultaka
That's great huegs and does your husband feel great after?

RichOBoyle
what kind of response to massage can one expect from their LO?

paultaka
Was there a health issue you were going through Doug?

huegs
Yes. He itches so as he is jaundice most of the time now

Doug
wife was accepted into hospice yesterday, she has been in a nursing home almost 5 yrs

paultaka
Rich, by LO do you mean loved one?

Doug
they give her a month

RichOBoyle
LO = loved one

paultaka
Our thoughts are with you Doug and your wife!

huegs
I am glad hospice is in the picture now Doug

pattymac
they will take good care ofher

Doug
finally

RichOBoyle
EA had so many good things to say about hospice and Milly

paultaka
Hospice is a kind of alternative choice as well.

RichOBoyle
has it been hard to get them involved?

huegs
I have hospice now also for husband. It is 9 months now

paultaka
Is it in home hospice huegs?

Doug
as of the end of Dec, she had not lost enough weight to qualify

huegs
Yes

paultaka
I've never heard of a weight qualification!

Doug
but she has lost more than 7 pounds since then

huegs
But we did not qualify for AD . It was the terminal cancer.

Doug
and is skin and bones now

Doug
it was from our local hospice org

huegs
I go to PT three times a week for a frozen shoulder. Some ask why I don't try massage.

babs
is hospice seperate from NH or a par tof or in hospital Doug?

pattymac
they will help you throu it all toodoug

Doug
i think they didnt want to become invoved with the disease

paultaka
Huegs, maybe you could try massage therapy, water therapy might also be good?

huegs
They will even go into NH and try to feed

Doug
the hospice org was started by the local medical center, which in turn owns the nursing home

paultaka
Your wife will have continuity of care then Doug.

Doug
yes, additional care

huegs
Yes I was thinking of water therapy. I am lucky as insurance pays for 60 visits to PT. They are trying to break the adhesions.

pattymac
hi paul, what about suppiments for dementia?

paultaka
by supplements do you mean medicine to treat or cure it?

pattymac
treat the symtoms

charlotte
and cure it if possible

paultaka
There aren't any strong medicine to treat the symptoms except drugs like Haldol which control some behaviors and unfortunately there is no cure...yet!

charlotte
what do you think of memantine? for alzheimer's?

paultaka
I have clients who use it but have not shared too much about the results. Aricept has had very good press from many people.

charlotte
Wondering if aricept is better is better than exelon...

paultaka
Aricept seems to slow down the progression of dementia for about 50 percent of people who use it.

pattymac
ant alternatives like herbs, or maybe Sam-E

huegs
Comparing treatments with a lot of the chatters, I find that every drug acts different on each AD patient. No reason.

paultaka
There have been studies on how herbal medicine or natural supplements might improve memory generally. Vitamin E has been recommended and of course gingko biloba but the results are not conclusive.

huegs
When aricept stopped working, they put husband on exelon. We were going to John Hopkins

paultaka
Yes, and every complementary and alternative medical treatment will have different results with different people.

Doug
Vit E was helpful, in my opinion, but even that has been discontinured

RichOBoyle
what should a cg do if they want to explore some of these CAM therapies? how to consult with doctor?

huegs
I think they just do not know enough about AD yet

paultaka
A person should of course consult a doctor about every thing they are trying.

paultaka
Some physicians are going to be more open than others. If a person is interested there are some good references at the end of my column to explore some options.

charlotte
We feel like trying everything..it seems like if you don't do something quickly, you can't slow it at all

charlotte
alzh, I mean.

paultaka
It's good to try things as long as they're aren't side effects or interactions with other treatments/drugs that are compromising.

RichOBoyle
at some point you start to look at the disease and inevitable, but you can ease some of the symptoms for both patient and CG

paultaka
Yes. CAM is mainly used for stress reduction, pain management and not for cures or strong treatments of symptoms. But many studies show that CAM save people money and drug side effects.

charlotte
CAM?

paultaka
Complementary and Alternative Medicine (CAM)

RichOBoyle
how is CAM used for pain management?

paultaka
By inducing relaxation primarily of both body and mind. Studies have shown that guided imagery that induces relaxation can be much more effective than many drugs like valium etc.

paultaka
When a person is in pain, they often tense up which causes a cycle of more pain, more tenseness, etc. CAM can reduce the tension which can reduce the pain and start a more calming cycle.

huegs
maybe that is what the caregivers need

paultaka
Yes. many of the caregivers I work with cite stress as their primary health issue and are looking for nonpharmaceuticual ways to deal with it.

paultaka
Many health insurance companies and HMO's are also seeing the benefits of CAM and offering more options for these choices.

huegs
Yes and it has to be something we can do at home

huegs
Support groups for AD are not the answer

RichOBoyle
can you give an example of some things that a CG can do to reduce stress... maybe a little guided imagery?

paultaka
Sure. Take a deep breath and exhale slowly.

paultaka
Take another deep breath and this time sigh out loud as you exhale.

Doug
i handle stress by trying to keep the mind busy with as many activities as possible

paultaka
That can sometimes work well but it's also good to try this!

paultaka
take a moment and relax your shoulders, most people have tension in this part of their body, let your shoulders go down about an inch or two.

paultaka
Now take a moment and relax your jaw. it's the second most common area where stress resides in most people.

paultaka
Now, envision yourself in your most favorite natural environment. could be a beach, the woods or a mountaintop.

huegs
Oh my. I was really clenching my teeth

paultaka
Yes, now move your jaw around release the tension there!

paultaka
Shake your shoulders a little more and move your feet around.

paultaka
Now, take a moment and really see the natural environment you're in. Rich, do you have an image in mind and could you share what it is?

CAROL
sounds like bubbles dreaming of being on a deserted island

RichOBoyle
The beach near my house

paultaka
Great. Really see yourself at this beach, it's a Sunday afternoon and you've finished all of your work and can really BE there!

Doug
hey Rich, can you arrange to have Paul come in here on a regular basis

paultaka
Thanks Doug, I'll be here at least once a month!

huegs
Yes it is too bad a lot of the regulars are not on tonigiht

RichOBoyle
actually Paul will be here each month and writes a column each month

Doug
that will be great

paultaka So, the taking a deep breath, relaxing your body and envisioning yourself in a peaceful environment a couple of times of day is very useful!

RichOBoyle
I like the idea of bringing more "holistic" info and ideas into our community

paultaka
thanks I hope it's useful.

huegs
I will relax my jaw for sure

paultaka
Good, it's really important to release tension there as much as possible.

charlotte
I got a relaxation cd...connected with colors..really helps...& can play it on a walkman type cd player & not impinge on others

paultaka
In my classes I give instructions for a five minute facial..it's hard to do this online but basically you move around your face muscles by making funny faces and massaging around the eyes.

paultaka
That's great Charlotte...another great way to relax.

paultaka (Jan 21, 2003 10:01:18 PM)
There are many relaxation tapes in bookstores that are useful.

huegs
The soundtrack to the old movie "rudy" relaxes my husband so

paultaka
Music is another great way to relax and to reminisce. Music skills are one of the last skills to go with a person with dementia.

paultaka
A person won't remember their spouse's name but will remember the words to old songs.

huegs
My husband is behind me here constantly asking to go home

paultaka
Which home is he asking for? One from childhood?

huegs
Sometimes I think that but other times I think he believes he is in hospital and we are just visiting

huegs
I forget. Who do you care for sks

sks
must be the moon - Mary thought this morning we cut the house in half and now we're staying in this one instead of staying two places

sks
Mother in law Mary

paultaka
Wow that's different!

paultaka
the house in half I mean!

sks
her hallucinations are very different

paultaka
Does she have lewy body dementia?

huegs
They are. She can express them to you then

sks
i'ts what made me decide to look beyond the AD diagnosis

huegs
We do charades. Husband cannot get words out

sks
I now believe based on info I've found she has LBD

paultaka
I had a client who once thought the ficus tree on the porch was his brother in law. But he got along with it!

huegs
Ha. that is funny

sks
her hallucinations are so detailed and vivid but she can seem perfectly normal - still reads some - writes with difficulty

sks
walks does some household things

paultaka
As long as he was amenable to his hallucinations, we "let" him have them. True for everyone?

Charlotte
makes sense

paultaka
What kinds of things can she still do?

sks
well - she gets upset that there are people here all the time and they won't answer her when she talks to them

sks
Read large print - can help with food preparation some - washes dishes -

paultaka
Ahh, I've run into that a number of times! It's interesting. I think it means they had very social lives before the dementia.

paultaka
Helping as much as possible is good. This generation likes to help!

sks
she may have before the alcoholic now x- husband but she didn't socialize because he embarassed her

huegs
Does she have good days and bad days

Charlotte
sks, how long has your wife's condition been developing

sks
she mostly dresses herself and loves reading to and playing with my grandchildren

sks
this is my mother in law

paultaka
and you are the primary caregiver?

sks
she lives with us since Oct. 2001 -

sks
yes

paultaka
are you a fulltime caregiver or do you work outside the home too?

sks
I'm the stability for her - my husb - her only remaining son has difficulty dealing with it

sks
I am both - my office is in home

paultaka
it's hard for the actual son or daughter to accept often

sks
my husband is on disability

Charlotte
whew

paultaka
you have three jobs!

paultaka
How do you handle the stress?

sks
he has so many problems and pain - with rheu. and osteo Arthritis and a few other things as well

sks
I have Hives LOL

sks
and I've always been able to deal with stress

paultaka
just naturally...how do you take care of yourself?

sks
I go see grands in Chic. about every 2 months

paultaka
what is grands in chic?

sks
go get a grands fix here see the 3 that live near - my grandsons twins 2 1/2

Charlotte
grandchildren in Chicago,,,right?

huegs
We were told this would be 4 to 6 months after the cancer dx. It is now over two years. Taking it toll on everyone now

paultaka
one never knows about diagnosis! The life force is very strong!

Charlotte
I still have moments when I think my husband, Bill, has been misdiagnosed...& this is about his two and a half year ago mild stroke instead of alz. denial? maybe, he's convinced it's alz...that's the funny part

paultaka
people can be a plateau for a long time!

Bubblehead
Charlotte that is absolutely normal

Bubblehead
I even at one time period while caring for Milly felt that what she had was not Alz.

paultaka
a friend of mine went today to be re-diagnosed but he thinks it will still be an Alzheimer's diagnosis.

sks
we were told in summer of 2000 that my MIL has AD - but she's had the hallucinations from beginning and now almost all day every day

Bubblehead
They are now diagnosing alz. at an early stage then they use to

huegs
We never had hallucinations until the last couple of months with the AD.

Bubblehead
so no wonder people have a hard time believing it

paultaka
yes, earlier diagnosis is the trend and it is changing our field...hi tiger

paultaka
it used to be that people got diagnosed when they were in the moderate stages primarily and the symptoms were obvious, now that's changing.

paultaka
is this one of those "quiet moments"?

sks
well as I look at stages on the sites and we fit the LBD symptoms

sks
the Neurologist didn't call me back today

paultaka
Yes, LBD has many more hallucinations associated with it than AD.

Bubblehead
It is getting their breath before the storm type deal

huegs
I was doing that too when first got dx. I was sure it was Picks. As he got worse dr. said all dementias end up as AD

Bubblehead
Well they end up like Alz.

Bubblehead
but pick is pick at any stage

paultaka
I'm not sure that's exactly true what the doctor said...I think the future will show that there are different kinds of Alzheimer's.

Bubblehead
and alz. is alz at any stage

sks
I could write many books on the hallucinations -

paultaka
you should we need more info!

Bubblehead
but you can also have a mixed dementia package

sks
if might save my sanity

paultaka
definitely another major trend in the field

huegs
I think when the dementia works its way around to all the lobes, it is called AD. Ours started out in frontal lobe

sks
the LBD site is good - have you looked at their info?

Bubblehead
Milly's so called halucinations almost all had some reason or cause behind them

sks
Mary's did in the earlier times

paultaka
can you give the lbd web address?

sks
but now - her 290 lb son being swung in circles on a ribbon and bouncing him off the ground?

paultaka
thats quite an image

sks
this site won't let you post a paste

Bubblehead
Milly claimed she saw her son's head floating out of her closet

sks
true - she was hysterical that they hurt him

paultaka
that's okay I'll search google.com or other search engine

sks
we had two men in her suitcase with one arm hanging out Sat at 7AM

paultaka
they must have been very small men

sks
http://www.lewybodydisease.org

paultaka
thanks!

sks
rofl - and the woman can lose her cigarettes faster than I can find them

sks
there was a post that nicotine patches may help

Bubblehead
Good don't find them

paultaka
they can and there are actually holistic ways to quit too

paultaka
I think that quitting smoking is the most important holistic health goal!

Bubblehead
If she is loosing her cigs try not finding them too quickly

sks
no it said research project that the patches help dementia

paultaka
don't know about that!

Bubblehead
Smoking and AD or related diseases is a very dangerous combinations

sks
she spends far more time finding them than smoking

paultaka
gives her something to do!

sks
she smokes maybe 4 a day - it's something to fiddle with

paultaka
Yet, if she could quit there are health advantages for a person of any age!

sks
and she won't smoke in house - but she wanted to smoke some when going thru her divorce and I figured she needed to have something she felt she could control

sks
we don't smoke so she wont inside

Bubblehead
try giving her a celery stick or carrot stick when she starts looking for them

huegs
I was going to say one of those false cigarettes

paultaka
A study showed that when people crave cigs, they are actually craving more air, so taking deep breaths often curb a nicotine craving.

Bubblehead
at 4 a day it is not as much a physiccal addiction any more

Bubblehead
I quit about a year ago and yes taking deep breaths when a craving hits does help

sks
you are going to think this is dumb but the nicotine from those 4 cigarettes - make her more alert and physically able - she had a heart attack years ago and quit so it's something new for her

paultaka
Congrats Bubblehead!

huegs
Too bad we can't get our AD LO to do Paul's relaxing exercises

Bubblehead
No it is not dumb

sks
I talked to the dr about it and he said it act s as stimulant

Bubblehead
the nicotine can make her more mentally alert and cigs are the only dual action drug known

paultaka
cigs are definitely stimulants but there are more healthy ways to accomplish the same things.

sks
so - I just monitor - and the dog is on her tail all the time - and he gets upset when she needs help - has alerted us when she fell

Bubblehead
it is both a stimulant and a downer

paultaka
in the long run, it's probably again "benign" and if she enjoys it, 4 a day is moderate.

Bubblehead
just be sure she does not have free access to cigs and lighter

sks
that's my thought - it's like the child - some things aren't worth hassle

sks
she doesn't - she can't find them lol

huegs
They all have some compulsive behaviors for sure

Bubblehead
When I was working in the NH many moons ago one fellow set fire to himself when his wife left him with cigs and lighter alone

paultaka
I know a person with dementia who is "addicted" to oreo cookies, can't stop eating them but they don't gain weight and it makes them happy so??

Bubblehead
that is why I get concern about smoking AD LOs

sks
I help her find them and then get her coat then tell her to let dog go out with her and THEN watch out the window till she gets it lit

paultaka
yes, fire and AD don't mix!

Bubblehead
Hey that is no0t an addicition it is a major food group and good medicine

paultaka
have you tried the new Mocha/Creme ones?

Bubblehead
No I have not seen those yet

sks
that's why we've updated smoke alarms - wish I could get her to eat anything instead of just meals - and that's an effort

Bubblehead
but I will track them down tomorrow

sks
I wish they'd make peanut butter ones

paultaka
I think we're getting away from holistic health interventions!

Bubblehead
they do

sks
no -

paultaka
But we all have our vices!!

RichOBoyle
what are some holistic approaches to quitting smoking?

sks
I mean no they are holistic

Bubblehead
but I though chocolate and peanut butter was holistic

paultaka
Well, hypnosis is one holistic way to stop smoking and acupuncture can help too.

paultaka
I know many people who have quit in these ways without the patch or drugs.

sks
oreos - yep - they have dairy and grains -

paultaka
chocolate actually does have some therapeutic value!

RichOBoyle
tell us about that!

sks
I believe in the acupuncture -

huegs
So what do you do with an AD patient to quiet them down when they are so agitated. Reasoning does not help. Do not like to give haldaol

Bubblehead
Is there not something that can tickle the pleasure centers of the brain that cigs do to help one ease an AD LO off cigs or allow them to forget they smoke without them looking to tickle those areas of the brain

sks
the Dr. put Mary on 5mg of Paxil

Bubblehead
I used drugs and patches to quit on the last leg of quitting

sks
very minor dose and it seems to have helped

paultaka
There's always a reason behind the agitation...look for that and sometimes the solution to ending the agitation is evident.

Bubblehead
but in reality it took me a little over two years to work to get to the last leg of quitting

paultaka
For example, often, the person has to go to the bathroom and once she or he is taken, calms down considerably.

sks
what about the old Nicotine gum -or is it the Nicotine you want to avoid

paultaka
if it might work try it!

sks
but with Mary she's agitated because as she says she has no control any more -

huegs
I used to hear that too

sks
or when she has the hallucinations - they upset her

paultaka
can you give Mary a sense of control of something?

Bubblehead
OK that sounds like fear sks

huegs
Now I just do not understand what it is that is bothering him and he even starts to cry

paultaka
sometimes just comforting will help without trying to resolve anything

sks
tonight she rode with me to bureau to transfer tags to current vehicle - when I came back out to truck she said "I wondered who was going to take me home?

paultaka
she must have been reassured when it was you!

sks
I talk her down - tell her it's ok we'll just deal with the problems --

sks
actually she didn't remember I got her there

paultaka
reassurance in any form is good

sks
she started talking about he had his hair cut and off on a tangent.

paultaka
that's where touch can be helpful again, just taking a person's hand and saying how much they mean to you can go along way.

sks
I was gone maybe 5 min.

paultaka
to a person with AD that's a lifetime sometimes!

huegs
My husband even started to speak German at one time of agitation. He spoke that till he was five

paultaka
it's very common for a person to "revert" to a childhood language

Bubblehead
Yes AD LO become very frightened about being left alon e in strange places

sks
I give a lot of hugs - more that I did - and I've always been demonstrative with her. the control thing - she lost a son, divorced a husb (bad as he was) and gave up her home to live with us. Kind of hard to give her much feeling of control

paultaka
yes, and hugs can be the best therapy and totally holistic!

huegs
Touching is the key. They want to know we are here

Bubblehead
Most all AD LOs that I have observed sitting in cars in parking lots display fearful behaviors while waiting for the CG to return

huegs
I sit him on the sofa and then I sit at the other end and put my feet on his lap. He is so happy then.

paultaka
out of sight, out of mind, literally!

Bubblehead
Actually it would be more fair to say eledrly people with seemingly aparent dificulties

paultaka
That's great huegs! very nice!

sks
she does - but is better as time goes on the X had her convinced the entire world was evil - he had a permit and carried a gun UGH

huegs
We both nod off and fall asleep

Bubblehead
and a great way to get your feet up while caring for LO

huegs
Yep for sure bubbles

paultaka
we've covered a lot of ground tonight, sorry my hand hit the return key twice

paultaka
It's a kind of stuttering

RichOBoyle
these chats tend to be very wide ranging

sks
I do - Sun. fell asleep in chat room and it started to slide off my lap LOL

Bubblehead
but when I was caring for Milly for much the time we had only one bathroom

Bubblehead
and usually if Milly was not on the comode then hubby or kids were uysing it

paultaka
that's a challenge and most aren't large enough to assist a person!

Bubblehead
and then you get to chuckling here and you can get in quite a spot

paultaka
a sense of humor is another holistic health method for sure!

Bubblehead
humor is something many bring here

sks
I try to tell her things to make her chuckle - most of the time she get's it

paultaka
One of the members of the early stage support group I facilitate tells great jokes, I'll remember to have some of them ready for next time.

paultaka
I'll be back again next month! Thank you so much Rich!

Bubblehead
It has been great meeting you paul

huegs
Enjoyed the chat

RichOBoyle
this has been very informative for us. I will post the transcript in the next few days

paultaka
great to meet you too and hope we chat soon

huegs
and got some pointers on relaxation

paultaka
I'll give more next time

RichOBoyle
you did an ecellent job for your first time, paul... i'm very impressed

paultaka
thanks!

 

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